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Survivor Know-It-Alls Recap Blood vs Water Episode 10

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Rob Cesternino and Stephen Fishbach (aka The Survivor Know-It-Alls) recap Survivor Blood vs Water Episode 10.

They said it wouldn’t happen but blood has turned on blood, and Rob Cesternino and Stephen Fishbach return to break down all the drama live on Survivor Know It Alls!

Laura Morett took the news of her impending vote off pretty well, and Stephen points out that Laura seemed very desperate to put a positive spin on her downfall by relating it back to Ciera growing and maturing through the game. He feels that it’s actually betrayal and bad gameplay, and Laura is too blind to realize it. Rob agrees, believing Ciera is a better player because Laura was allowing herself to roll over and die for her. Stephen doesn’t agree she’s a better player, believing Laura isn’t a worse player just because she’s going along with her daughter’s plan. Stephen feels that Laura wants to use their relationship to go further in the game and Ciera is basically just saying “nope” to that plan. Rob asks what their move should have been, and Stephen thinks that Laura and Ciera needed to go to Monica or Hayden, anyone really, to try and flip the game on Tyson. Rob thinks this is a tough move to pull off with 8 people left, and more ideal with a pair (Hayden and Caleb being the most logical), but Katie is desperate and they could have created a block of 5 to blindside him. Stephen says the fact that Ciera and Laura didn’t even try to save her is what makes this move particularly bad, and believes Ciera’s strategy of coasting to the end to become someone’s goat on the jury is still worse than Laura’s strategy of at least trying to play the game and put herself in a position to win.

The chat room interrupts to protest that we don’t know for sure whether Ciera and Laura really didn’t try at all to save Laura, but Stephen remains not a big fan of these fan fiction excuses. Because we didn’t see any real communication, he’s skeptical that anything really substantial happened on this front. Rob mentions that Ciera said on Twitter that Hayden, Caleb, and Monica wouldn’t work with Laura, so this probably confirms what Stephen was originally thinking anyway. Rob also wants to know who Ciera thinks she’s in the final 3 with, and what plan she has that she doesn’t want screwed up? Stephen says that it could be either the pair of Caleb/Hayden or Tyson/Gervase, but thinks back to what Monica said in a previous episode about how making a plan like that doesn’t really matter if you don’t think you can beat the people sitting next to you at the end. He also says that returning players tend to realize they coasted too much and didn’t make the big move in their first time around, so Laura should probably realize Ciera is veering off course.

Rob is confused that so many people soundly rejected working with Laura, saying he would bend over backwards to get to the end with the Moretts for what one would assume is an easy win. Stephen plays Devil’s Advocate by bringing up that the camp narrative is how threatening Laura is, with her wins at Redemption Island and etc. While Rob and Stephen both agree though that it was strong gameplay by Ciera to call Katie’s bluff re: the hidden immunity idol (Stephen says we’ve rarely seen something like that on the show), they both say Ciera’s major mistake was telling Tyson about the move, because that was the moment Tyson realized Laura and Ciera had the potential to at least try to make moves and it sealed the deal for him that Laura needed to go. Stephen, however, doesn’t feel this was the move of a mastermind, adding that he was surprised it was only then Tyson even realized she was playing the game. Stephen feels that’s a testament to how well Ciera must have been playing under the radar until this episode.

One of Stephen’s biggest problems with Ciera voting out her mom is that he doesn’t think Ciera definitely told Laura she’d be voting her out. Neither Stephen nor Rob can envision a scenario that wouldn’t be securing an absolute win where they would vote their moms out of the game. Rob asks Stephen what the percent chance is that Ciera wins, and Stephen feels it’s currently non-zero, maybe 15% – it’s likely she could make the end as the obvious third place finisher, and she would at least definitely have a hypothetical vote from Laura.

Rob was also bothered by the immunity challenge tonight, which Monica won along with a hot dog lunch with another player that Jeff Probst allowed her to give up to the entire rest of the tribe. He and Stephen don’t understand why Monica basically got to make up the rules of who was allowed to eat as long as she wasn’t one of them. Stephen mentions that the point of these decisions is to expose tribe dynamics, so it’s not good when Jeff allows her to just neutralize a decision like that. If she had taken Tyson and Gervase, he feels that might have actually had game implications. Rob also adds that if Monica thinks she earned something from that move, she is sorely mistaken. Stephen disagrees somewhat, saying it buys her at least a few days of good will, but Rob thinks it means he would then have to get rid of her because everyone liked her.

At the end of the show, Rob and Stephen take questions from the listeners: How funny would it have been if someone else had written “Mom” on their vote for Laura? Is Tyson getting the winner’s edit? Would Survivor be a better TV show if Jeff Probst announced that the immunity idol had been found but didn’t reveal who had it? And should the contestants on Redemption Island get to watch Tribal Council a la the boardroom scenes on Celebrity Apprentice? The answers to these questions and more on Survivor Know It Alls!

Ciera and Laura Morett butt heads on the Survivor Blood vs Water Episode 10 Recap

Will Ciera vote out her Mom on Survivor Blood vs Water?

Special Thanks to Brendan Noel for an outstanding job with tonight’s podcast recap!

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Rob Cesternino

Rob Cesternino is a two-time Survivor player and reality TV aficionado. Rob gives his thoughts on his favorite Reality TV shows as the host of "Rob Has a Podcast" More From Rob Cesternino »



  • BobbyKe

    CBS themselves in photos has spoiled who wins immunity, who leaves Redemption Island & who gets voted out. They’re obviously not even trying anymore

  • Alex

    Why couldn’t Josh Wiggler and Glenn Holford get their Survivor blogs up for the last two episodes?

  • Gongos951

    WTF happened to the chat?

    • Phillip Stanford

      thats what i was just about to comment lol

      • Gongos951

        Right this sucks, gotta refresh every couple minutes to talk now. Rob fix the chat!

        • Nick Fishman

          it will be up soon, i wouldn’t worry

  • Zachary Zarnett-Klein

    Is Monica’s move of giving the whole tribe food going to hurt her like Brenda’s did when she gave her tribe the family visit last season?

    • Gongos951

      Meh partially, Brendas was a bigger deal and made a lot of friends. And if you make a lot of friends you became a major threat to win.

    • Zach Robel

      It won’t hurt her as much because she actually had immunity in the instance when she gave away the food, so within 3 days time the others will probably already have bigger targets on their hit list. It most likely won’t come to be an issue for her until the end when they’re fearing if she can get jury votes, but even then, last episode seemed to suggest everyone is generally annoyed with her loose canon gameplay, so handing out concessions probably didn’t do her reputation much good anyway.

    • susan appleby

      Yes. When she gets no votes as the final three goat.

    • damnbueno

      Maybe, maybe not.

      The stakes were higher for Brenda because it was later in the game, and players tend to value their loved ones more than a cheeseburger.

      Telling someone they can’t see their spouse is worse than denying them a hot dog.

  • Zachary Zarnett-Klein

    Why don’t Hayden and Caleb do anything to split up Tyson/Gervase- they can’t all make it to the final 3, and don’t they think that people are more likely to vote for the returnee- better story and made bigger moves?

    • Gongos951

      They aren’t looking beyond final four. And it seems clear that when tyson was talking to him earlier that hayden and caleb are thinking they are in the 4 with gerv and tyson.

      • susan appleby

        No. They answer this in the podcast. At final 5, one of the two pairs will get the 5 player to vote with them.

        Also, immunity factors in.

  • Phillip Stanford

    Wow…. Sierra

  • Gongos951

    LOL ok…. GG Ciera, slick

  • Phillip Stanford

    ohh we need the Chat right about now/…

    • Gongos951

      I know right

    • Nick Fishman

      agreed

  • Phillip Stanford

    LOL Laura M making the best case to vote herself out

    • Gongos951

      haha…. Why would you tell them being a loved one pair is an advantage.

      • Nick Fishman

        wow, so Ciera’s last ditch effort at keeping her mom fell flat yet she voted for her mom anyway?

        • Gongos951

          Yea so much for trying to save her, gained a little respect for Ciera this episode though.

  • Nick Fishman

    and here i thought there wouldn’t be any chance of a blindside of any sorts

    • Gongos951

      I called this 2 weeks ago that after Aras and Vytas went that Laura would be gone before katie.

  • Phillip Stanford

    Well Laura cae back once she can doit again but GO VYTAS!

  • Nick Fishman

    Here’s a nasty thought; how epic would it be if someone else wrote MOM on their vote for Laura
    when Ciera hadn’t voted for Laura

    • susan appleby

      But the little frown is face makes it all better. Lol. Ciera is a moron.

      • Morty

        I actually think she’s pretty smart for the most part. The con on Katie was great, and she’s been an astute narrator. That said, I’m now convinced she’s also a beyond-the-pale snake who would literally hang her own Mother out to dry.

  • Zachary Zarnett-Klein

    does anyone know when ponderosa clips will be up?

    • Phillip Stanford

      lol after the jury starts for one

    • BobbyKe

      CBS had it up earlier today for Aras but took it down about an hour before the episode started

      Seriously, they aren’t even attempting to prevent spoilers anymore. They’re actively doing it themselves

      • Zachary Zarnett-Klein

        Thanks Bobby- that’s really interesting. CBS has gotten so bad with the spoilers that starting tonight I’m not watching the teasers for the next episode anymore. We basically knew by last week’s teaser what was going down tonight, and the edit is making the whole show pointless to watch and downright obvious and boring.

        • susan appleby

          There were tons of spoilers. I found out after the episode from another site that:

          All the challenges and winners were spoiled ( ri and immunity), who got the clue was spoiled and ciera voting for her mom was spoiled.

          These were all spoiled by photos leaked early by CBS.

          They gave away all the info from the photos they leaked.

  • Nathan

    how cool would it be if tyson is voted out with the idol next week then comes back and plays it?

  • BobbyKe

    Considering there are signs that this move likely doesn’t do for Ciera what she thinks it will, then it amazes me that she got such a phenomenal edit for this move. She’s clearly thinking & trying to advance herself, but the main issue is timing. This move would’ve worked much better at Final 6 rather then now

    The scene where Ciera got Katie to admit she didn’t have the idol was awesome

    Ciera is getting a tear jerker edit & that ending was incredibly emotional. I think the show really wants her to win fan favorite. They could’ve played up that the move likely will backfire, but they emphasized many times that Ciera is thinking hard & never really outright said “This isn’t the right move”

    Laura really puts her foot in her mouth a lot. Her saying as a pair, you want one of them on the jury was precisely why everyone wanted her out so much. She keeps giving people more reasons not to work with her & Ciera

    I would like to believe the 4 newbies team up, but even if they do, I’d expect Tyson to play his idol next week

    • Nathan

      what signs that it doesnt do well for ciera? based on the promo it looks the old tadhana have the numbers

      • BobbyKe

        Having the numbers doesn’t mean you survive – Tyson does still have his idol. Ciera said multiple times “I don’t want to vote out my mom & be booted out right after”. I view that as irony indicating she is a strong candidate for that

        There was also foreshadowing of a possible rocks vote, so if Ciera’s involved in that, they also foreshadowed her pulling the rock, so maybe instead of going right after her mom, she goes at 6

        Either way, there were indications Ciera is one of the next 2 voted out

    • Ben88

      I’m not sure how Ciera could’ve kept Laura this week. Tyson clearly had total control of this vote and Ciera knew it. Despite her attempt to sneak in her mother another week, I think she knew that all she could do was position herself for the future.

      I think she definitely made the right move. Tyson had total control, and if the previews are honest, then Ciera may have realized that after her mom was gone, that the newbies would have the numbers.

    • dsharden

      i just don’t understand your view. Ciera for Fan favorite? She hasn’t even played the game. She is Tyson’s goat. Nothing she said to Laura was original. she just regurgitates the information from the guys.

      • BobbyKe

        I don’t see anybody else getting a fan favorite edit like Ciera is. Everybody else has a lot of negative material from the edit or is next to irrelevant. They could’ve made Ciera look bad for voting out her mom, but it was played up as sweet & emotional

        Seriously, Who is getting a “fan favorite” edit if it isn’t Ciera?

        • anon ymous

          In my opinion you have it backwards. Tyson is getting the fan favorite edit, while Ciera is getting the winner edit.

          • BobbyKe

            I see a lot of casual fan that hate Tyson. He’s looked like a jerk on many occasions. He’s played the conniving mastermind much more then the goofball this season. He’s clearly played a smart game, but he hasn’t had a very likable edit & haven’t seen many casual viewers rooting for him

            A Winners edit comes from having end game connections & foreshadowing that the person makes it to the end. There is significantly more foreshadowing in Tyson’s direction then Ciera’s. I’d love it if Ciera made it to the end as she’s my favorite, but she has lacked end game connections from the edit. Her main story this season is her mom

            If Ciera does make it to the end, I don’t have any idea who she’d be up against at Final Tribal

          • Gongos951

            Another player that “looked like a jerk” on many occasions was Russell, TWICE. And he won fan favorite both those occasions, just saying.

          • Dave L

            Agreed. No obvious fan favorite this time, but polarizing figures often have a better chance. Money would be on Tyson now. He’d probably win “fan least favorite” vote, if that one took place too. Tyson’s edit just continues to get more and more positive… I thought this was a very good episode for him. I suspect the edit is giving credit to Tyson more than Gervace, but who knows.

          • Trixie02

            Gervase has that IMO. This episode, he was encouraging players at RI while Tyson sat quietly. He’s the good cop.

          • BobbyKe

            Gervase has been portrayed as Tyson’s lacky throughout the season. I think he’s playing well, but he has had absolutely zero character development. Everybody about Gervase revolves around Tyson. Gervase himself has not been an centrical part to the story this season other then being teamed up with Tyson

            Fan favorites have stories, development & are centrical characters. Gervase has succeeded this season gameplay wise, but he hasn’t been an centric part to the story

        • dsharden

          Tyson, Vytas, Aras, Gervace,Tina, Monica….all would make a better choice than Ciera. Ciera is a dull person who is just going along with the guys. She has no strategy and seems mindless running around. I’m not a fan.

          • BobbyKe

            I don’t know how after watching this episode you can say Ciera doesn’t have a strategy. She’s clearly trying very hard. Doubtful whether it works out for her, but she’s playing hard

            You can just as easily say right now that Hayden & Caleb are being mindless following Tyson & Gervase

            Ciera in this episode got the most screen time EVER for a female in a non finale episode. STAR

            Vytas & Aras both looked incredibly arrogant in their boot episode, Tina has been an afterthought for many episodes, Monica is portrayed as a doormat, Gervase is Tyson’s lacky & Tyson while playing smart is still a goofball & hasn’t been nice at all. Most fans don’t have a high opinion of Tyson

          • dsharden

            We will just have to agree to disagree about Ciera. i view her very unlikely to do anything. The edit tonight was to show the last Blood team and have some drama, but I don’t see her having any affect from now on.
            I didn’t like Monica at first but am now admiring her strength and dedication to winning immunity. You can tell Ciera dropped out fast, just like she dropped out fast for eating challenge. She has no game. At least Monica and Katie had the inspiration to do anything to get immunity. Ciera has brought nothing to the game but mom.

        • susan appleby

          Tyson, vytas, Monica, aras.

          No way fans vote for a girl who votes out her Mom.

  • Alex

    How do you think that the other players will view Cierra’s willingness to vote off her mom? Will they think that it was a savvy, strategic move, or will they treat her the way Dawn was treated for voting out Brenda?

    • BobbyKe

      Based on the reactions from people at tribal, nobody seemed to think less of her. The reactions I saw were “It’s hard, don’t know if I could’ve done that, but I understand”. People know that unlike other moves in the past, this wasn’t emotionally based. Plus Ciera’s pretty much impossible for people to hate & seems like the easiest person to along with of anyone there, which Dawn wasn’t

    • Nick Fishman

      I think they will treat it like a strategic move but she did it at a time when there are many others with time to boot her out, since she has a good argument for winning the money, along with a loved one on the jury. This move makes sense to me if able to be done even one more vote later than it was

    • Stephen

      They will react positively. Everyone hated on Dawn because Brenda took the move poorly, whereas Laura appreciated the strategic element of the move so it is hard to anyone else to get too high and mighty about it.

  • Nick Fishman

    One of those things that stuck out to me was that some players were saying that Ciera’s game and Katie’s game were similar yet the episodes themselves tell a completely different story regarding this idea. Katie was unknowingly spinning in circles, trying to accomplish a hopeless goal by finding the idol, while Ciera accept the facts, tried to prevent it, but then knowingly accepted the fail attempt. Ciera is getting the interesting storyline but i don’t know if a jury would see that. Also, if on Ponderosa with Laura while Ciera is in the final 2/3, would any juror take seriously anything that Laura said? The obvious bias of Laura might completely turn off the jurors for votting for Ciera, if it came to that.

  • BobbyKe

    Eliza Orlins @eorlins 1h
    Why not turn on the guys @ this point? You have a guaranteed ally who’d never turn on your with your family member in the game? #survivor

    Ciera @cieraeastin 20m
    @eorlins I thought of that first but Hayden and Caleb did not trust my mom… And Monica didn’t either

    Well this answers why neither of those possible plans happened. Nobody was willing to work with Laura so the logic makes a bit more sense from her direction now

    • susan appleby

      Disagree. That could have been Cieras assumption. If she had pleaded her case or made a strong pitch for why they had to take out one of the veteran players, it would have been shown.

      That idea of not working with Laura is based on old information from the merge. It wasn’t too early to turn against returning players.

      Even if it didn’t work, there was not even a hint they tried it. Ciera actively distanced herself from Katie – her most natural ally- by lying about the idol.

      Ciera is blaming her mom. I haven’t seen people say they didn’t want Laura. She was voted out to eliminate Brad, if I remember correctly.

      But Laura M is a trustworthy player. I hope she comes back again. I love her fire and competitiveness. Playing with her daughter really hurt her game.

  • Erica Cirpona

    hey

  • damnbueno

    Laura M. is now in an exclusive Survivor club.

    She’s now one of only five players who have been voted out twice in the same season — joining Burton (Pearl Islands), Matt Elrod & Andrea (R.I. Nicaragua), and Ozzy (South Pacific).

    And Laura could top them all by achieving a 3-peat if she survives the duels and gets voted out again.

    If she did that, she’d only be the sixth person to be voted out a total of 3 times — a club that includes Jerri (Australia, All-Stars & HvV), Cirie (Panama — technically, a tiebreaker loss — FvV 1 & HvV), Ozzy (FvF 1, and twice in South Pacific), Andrea (twice in R.I. Nicaragua & FvF 2), and Candice (Cook Islands, HvV & BvW).

    Laura could become the absolute best at getting voted out of Survivor.

    Andrea of course has the more impressive vote out resume right now because she got blindsided twice — including once while holding an Idol, but I think Laura getting it done 3 times in the same season would top that.

    It would be a dubious achievement for sure.

    Go Team Laura!!!!!

    • anon ymous

      Ozzy already did the 3 peat in South Pacific, and has been voted out 4 times total in his career.

      • damnbueno

        Oh yeah, that’s right. I had it wrong.

        Good catch.

        I’m still on team Laura. I haven’t seen this episode yet, was it a blindside? If it was, she’d be in line to take the crown from Ozzy.

        • BobbyKe

          Nope. Ciera basically warned her mom long in advance she thought it’d be best to vote her out. Laura trusted her daughter to do what she thought it was best for her & she played the proud parent role

          • damnbueno

            Then I guess Ozzy will remain the vote out King.

          • Trixie02

            Tyson could tie him if he goes to RI and gets voted off again.

          • damnbueno

            Very true. It would be a close call between the two if Tyson gets blindsided while holding an Idol.

          • Trixie02

            Very close.

            What happens to the idol if he is voted off with one? Can he use it upon return?

          • damnbueno

            I think he can. It depends on when the R.I. person comes back.

            Idols are usually good up to the final 5, so if the R.I. person comes back at 4, he’d have a guaranteed seat in the 4. If he keeps his mouth shut about his Idol, he’d be able to pick who leaves because its a safe bet everyone would want to boot him.

            Of course if he wins the final 5 Immunity, he could also protect whomever he thinks he can beat for the million with his Idol — or Gervase if he wants to stay partners with him.

    • Stephen

      Rupert has been voted out thrice as well (PI, AS and HvV).

      • damnbueno

        Good point. I knew I should have waited until I had my notes handy.

      • Rohit Philip

        you mean 4 times including BvW

        • Matthew Teacher

          He wasn’t actually voted out, what with the whole switch with your loved one and duel thing

        • Stephen

          He wasn’t voted out though, in the words of the man himself “never went to tribal, never got a vote”

        • damnbueno

          There was no vote for Rupert this season. He voluntarily went to R.I., then lost in a duel.

  • Erica Cirpona

    I hate this new chat

    • Gongos951

      agreed

  • BobbyKe

    Stephen seems so offended by Ciera voting out her mom. He’s so appalled by the idea. His belief that Ciera could have got a alliance with her mom is incorrect. Those options weren’t there. He’s so appalled by the idea of a daughter voting out her mom

    A Hayden/Caleb/Ciera Final 3 is still an option for Ciera & she’s not a goat in that scenario either (Caleb is)

    • susan appleby

      I’m appalled by Ciera too. It was unnecessary for her to vote out her own Mother. Ciera looked really bad for making that call. She hurt her Mom and she also hurt her own game. She went from the perfect under the radar girl to the most ruthless and cutthroat player in one vote.

      None of the others would have voted out a loved one when their vote was insignificant to the final result.

      I have no respect for Ciera who

      • toast

        Well, as you said, she’s breaking the mould of the UTR Girl.
        She wont be a “Who was that girl again?”

      • BobbyKe

        I prefer CPPP5 over UTR any freakin day. Unheard of rating for someone like Ciera

        And seriously, if Laura isn’t upset with Ciera for it, no one should be.

      • Kevin Wong

        “It was unnecessary for her to vote out her own Mother.”

        I don’t know that it was needed or not, but I do know that one person wins the game. For the endgame, you need votes. And even if you voted out your mother (although your vote didn’t actually matter and Jeff showed the vote for dramatic purposes) it is virtually a guaranteed vote FOR you.

        And you can debate about the level of effectiveness, but just having someone at Ponderosa campaigning for you and attempting to deflect any bitterness against you is better than having no one at all. And it also doesn’t hurt that Ciera flat out TOLD her mom the reasons why she might need to vote her out, which means that she has her story ready for the inevitable question, and again, something that Laura can tell any jurors questioning the vote.

        Of course, if Ciera does not make it to the finals, then this is all a moot point.

    • Morty

      I have to admit I’m appalled also. Ciera throws a vote a Katie, and Laura leaves 6-2 instead of 7-1. Why twist the knife on her own Mom?

      No one (probably not even Katie) would have held not voting for her Mom against her, and voting for her Mom will not help her in any way that I can see.

      If she gets to the end, it will be so awesome for a jury ember to ask, “So, Ciera, how do you needlessly sell out your own Mother for a tiny chance at money?

      • Stephen

        Laura will work the jury over before hand though. Seriously if Laura isn’t offended by it then it isn’t even an issue.

        • damnbueno

          Laura isn’t as influential with a jury as most think. Many believe she swung the Samoa jury against Russell, but that’s far from the truth.

          Russell did much more to turn that jury against him than Laura ever could. Laura and Erik butted heads all season. There’s no way he’d let her influence his vote. Kelly expressed her disdain for Russell before she got out of the car taking her to the Ponderosa — and that was a couple of days before Laura joined them there.

          And this season, Laura has already made several passionate speeches to everyone about how much she cares for and loves Ciera. Every juror will be very aware of her obvious bias, and will take that into account when/if she lobbies for Ciera.

          Ciera is gonna have to win the Jury over on her own. She’s already got Laura’s vote. She also has the respect of Caleb, Vytas and Hayden. And this week, even Tyson became aware that Ciera isn’t just a doormat — she’s very smart and perceptive. Gervase saw that too.

        • Morty

          That’s not how people work, tho. People take offense on behalf of others who aren’t offended on a regular basis. The jury (or most of them) may well adopt the view that while Laura can forgive and cheer on Ciera, they don’t have to.

          You may end up being right, but human nature being what it is, it’s not a given. I said in another thread that I didn’t see Ciera turning on her Mom by voting her out. I gotta admit that I was dead wrong on that call. We’ll see about this one…

          • Stephen

            I should have phrased that better, if Laura isn’t offended it SHOULDN’T be an issue. You get the impression that Laura hanging with the jury or giving a jury speech will negate any animosity towards Ciera.

            I was kind of wrong, I didn’t see Ciera turning on Laura, but in the end she made a pretty big effort to save her and in the end just joined the pile on. That’s more admirable than the person who pretends they know nothing and throw away their vote.

          • Morty

            Hmmm, I don’t think pointlessly “piling on” your own Mom is more admirable than tossing a meaningless vote at Katie to lesson the sting felt by your Mom.

            Backstabbing one’s own Mom can easily foster a visceral reaction in onlookers, so how one should/shouldn’t view the betrayal typically doesn’t come into play given that emotion often dictates an onlooker’s reaction, not logic.

            Like I said, the jury may well adopt something approximating your view and consider the move with more detachment. Were I a Juror, though, Ciera, would have lost my vote, regardless of any campaign for her by her Mom.

          • Stephen

            No, I mean the admiral part was how she stuck her neck out pretty hard to save her, rather than just looking the other way.

          • Morty

            Ahhh…

          • Dave L

            I don’t think it’s irrelevant that Laura is a grandmother at age 43 or whatever. Both women had children at a very young age. I think this both weakens the bond between parent and child, and also shows less foresight. This was a horrible move by Ciera in my mind…both from a gameplay and relationship play angle. She struck me as a bratty teenager telling her mom that she’s old, and she knows everything, and a beaten down mom had no response.

      • Trixie02

        Ciera was probably trying to show loyalty to her alliance. She had asked Tyson to vote for Katie instead of her mom. She needed to prove she was up front with him about her reasons.

        Given what Laura said about working the jury, this might have been a blessing in disguise because it separates them.

        If the remaining players think, Laura just gave them a hint. Anyone with a loved one must go or that person will receive one vote guaranteed. Katie and Ciera should be next and whoever comes back from RI should be out immediately.

    • Trixie02

      Katie would be a better second goat.

  • damnbueno

    I thought it was huge that Aras gave credit to Gervase for blindsiding him. He said it in front of everyone who will be on the Jury.

    Caleb, Hayden & Ciera had the idea pitched to them by BOTH Tyson & Aras. They’re likely to believe Aras’ claim.

    Tina realized after the fact that Gervase was in on it from Vytas. She’ll believe Aras too. And of course, Tina told Katie about it.

    So that makes seven jurors who could credit Gervase, and not Tyson with the move than flipped the game.

    The promos will likely keep crediting Tyson with the move, and a lot of fans will believe it. But since Gervase pitched the idea to Tyson, I’m with Aras — credit goes to Gervase. And the jury votes might go to him too.

    And what the hell was Tyson doing staying in that challenge for so long? If any of these people still think he’s hurt, that image HAS to have been blown away by now

    • Morty

      Yeah, I think Tyson’s bum shoulder thing is out the window now.

      • Dave L

        I suspect he wanted to outlast Laura to ensure she didn’t win. I’m guessing he threw it at that point.

      • damnbueno

        He’s totally blown that image away. Maybe his classic overconfidence is taking over, and he just wants to beat everyone.

        If he was trying to throw that challenge, he did a miserable job of it. He could have sold it better after Katie fell out, but instead he hung in to finish 2nd.

        VERY bad move on his part.

    • Snappy S

      I totally agree with you. I feel that Tyson being voted out will totally help Gervase’s game. If he is sitting with anyone in final 3 I think he will win.

    • Mike

      Not entirely sure what you’re watching, but I just rewatched the beginning of “One Man Wrecking Ball” and it’s pretty clearly Tyson that approached Gervase first about the prospect of voting out Aras right before the swap, so I’m pretty sure that’s why people will credit Tyson, because it’s what actually happened. If there’s a later point that Gervase comes to Tyson that I’ve forgotten, fair enough, but there’s no question that Tyson laid the seed for it right there. But really, that part isn’t even what’s important. What’s important is that Tyson is the one that has consistently been putting these coalitions together. Tyson is the one talking to Caleb and Hayden about the vote, and Hayden is saying how much he likes Tyson. Tyson is the one that pulled Monica in to the alliance. Heck, Tyson is the one that pulled Gervase away from his predisposition toward Aras based on their outside the game relationship. Tyson is the one responsible for getting the five together in the first place. He was pretty clearly the alliance builder here, and to make moves, you need votes.

      • damnbueno

        The beginning of that episode — day 14) happens AFTER Gervase’s deleted scene on day 13. Gervase says his priority is eliminating all the power couples, starting with Aras abd Vytas. He and Tyson become partners the next day.

        It was Gervase’s idea. And he and Tyson BOTH pitched the idea of the new alliance to Caleb, Hayden and Ciera.

        But you’re right, most people will give credit to Tyson because they don’t watch the deleted scenes.

        • Mike

          Unless Gervase’s deleted scene was him talking to Tyson about it, then I’m not sure how that matters. At all. It just means that they both came to the same conclusion independently. Just because he broached the subject with Gervase on day 14 doesn’t necessarily mean he thought of it then and there either. At best it’s an even split.

          Also, which deleted scene are you referring to btw? I’m looking at the one “Aras doesn’t care about us” and he’s wearing a red buff, so that’s definitely after the talk with Tyson as they were still on the original tribe at that point.

          • damnbueno

            For the most part, I agree with you. I give Gervase and Tyson half credit for blindsiding Aras. It was Gervase’s idea, and Tyson lobbied the votes to get it done.

            Gervase’s deleted scene was taken before the swap. The caption said “Day 13.” It was posted the week before the swap episode aired.

            Tyson had a confessional on day 13 in which he said “I’ve got my core alliance of 5, and Kat thinks she’s in it too. Laura M. has no clue, and Laura B. is just annoying.”

            Then on Night 13, Laura M. was blindsided.

            The next day (Day 14) Tyson and Gervase were shown wondering if they should go after Aras if Galang lost Immunity. That’s when Tyson asked “Could you write Aras’ name down?” Then they became partners.

            Who knows what was left on the editing floor, but I can’t think of a good reason why Gervase’s deleted scene would be captioned “Day 13″ if it was from another part of the game. I’m trusting it. So at a minimum, we know Gervase was thinking about booting Aras BEFORE he became partners with Tyson.

          • Mike

            Do you have the link and/or title to the deleted scene, because now I’m curious. Is it possible the scene says day 13 as in the afternoon of day 13, and that’s when the tribe swap happened? Because wouldn’t the vote off happen on day 12? There’s no question that their conversation happened before the scene I watched. He’s wearing a red buff, and they were not on the red tribe.

            Also, there doesn’t always need to be a “good reason” for mis-captioned or misrepresented scenes. I remember someone mentioned they inserted a random pre-swap Laura B. confessional which you could tell because she still had the pre-swap buff on and there was no real reason to do so.

            If for argument’s sake you are correct (which you easily could be if the confessional I watched is the wrong one, but if it is one where he has a red buff, then I’m definitely correct that it happened after), and Gervase did cut that confessional first I still have no understanding of why that idea is credited to Gervase. It’s just insane logic, unless Gervase’s idea in some way influenced Tyson, it’s just two bros coming to the same obvious conclusion independently. To me, the relevance of “coming up with the idea” only comes into play if the second person takes on that idea on the basis of something the first person said. Could you maybe better explain what you think the relevance of the person “coming up with the idea” is so I can maybe understand what you’re trying to get at here? Because to me, it just seems bizarre, and I tend to assume you’re not a crazy person.

          • damnbueno

            I’m rewatching all of Gervase’s secret scenes, but the CBS site is agonizingly slow right now.

            I take notes on each episode, then on Thursday, I add in info in a separate “deleted scenes” paragraph, and that’s where I have the Gervase info.

            I can’t find the one that was stamped “Day 13,” but in this one (taken after the day 12 Waterslide Immunity loss) he mentions the need to break up the power couples. Its at the end of the clip. He’s wearing a Galang buff too.

            http://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/video/x96UAcGSNQ_ZeKT5e7Ep1aGxaerU21oQ/survivor-blood-vs-water-they-took-our-steaks/

          • Mike

            Just watched it. “As long as we vote out a power couple” is pretty non-descript, relative to “Are you ok voting out specifically Aras?” to be fair. “Vote out the power couple” is just something obvious that literally anyone would say if their loved one is gone.

          • damnbueno

            Like I said, I can’t find the one that was stamped “Day 13″ now. He was more specific in that clip. He named Aras and Vytas as the prime target.

            I’ll keep looking for it.

  • Bobby Lewis

    mark my words: there will be no more big moves.

    • susan appleby

      Disagree. Monica is playing hard. I expect to see Tyson’s name written down. I hope he plays the idol and one of the newbies- preferably that idiot Ciera- goes packing. Would love redemption island ciera v Laura battle.

      I think Ciera has her own bitterness against her Mom to work out, Ciera can’t see how strong her Mom really is. Ciera is playing the game from the merge, but the game has moved way past that.

      • Corndogger

        Where are you seeing bitterness from Ciera toward her mom? To me she clearly loves her mom but she also knows they’re playing a game for $1 million. She also sees that her position in the game is much stronger than Laura’s. If Ciera sacrificed her game just so she would look “good” then she would be an idiot. Casting a vote for Laura was a smart move by Ciera.

    • BobbyKe

      Did you see that HUGE foreshadowing scene before tribal?

      2 Words

      PURPLE ROCK

      • Stephen

        Jeff did tease an event that has only ever happened once in survivor history will happen this season. Most people were thinking Purple Rock but I get the feeling that it will be a duel between Katie/Tina or Laura/Ciera and one of the mothers will pull an Ian and step down so their loved one can move on. Now that you bring that up maybe we do get a purple rock. Although I feel like Probst would have been all over it in the build up if it happened.

        • Corndogger

          Jeff said it’s only happened once in 27 seasons which means this is the first time it’s happened and he said it happens at TC. So it can’t be a purple rock event or anything to do with RI. He also said it made the cameramen gasp so it had to have been something spontaneous otherwise they would know what was coming.

          • Stephen

            I thought he said it has only happened once before (meaning that it had happened once prior and happens again here), but I don’t recall him saying it happens at tribal, although if it happened for the first time this season it was probably this boot. When he said something makes the cameraman gasp I thought that was something different (which I think was Ciera voting out Laura).

          • Corndogger

            This is exactly what he said.

            “It’s something that’s only happened one time in 27 seasons,” he says. “It was so shocking, I swore I could hear the cameramen gasping at tribal council. … It’s one of those seasons where things keep happening, and I think fans are going to be entertained all the way up until the end.”

            Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/survivors-jeff-probst-talks-blood-650302

            I’d say his wording makes it clear this has never happened before. There’s been a lot of “shocking” things happen at TC before so it’s really hard to say what could have happened this time. Ciera voting out her mom couldn’t be the moment because the cameramen would have known in advance that was a strong possibility.

          • Stephen

            I read it once when it came out, and that was it, thank you for clearing it up. Maybe it is something coming up.

      • Kevin Wong

        Unless there are some weird shenanigans, the purple rock (if it happens) won’t happen next tribal (tribe of 7 will generate a boot by the second vote).

        • BobbyKe

          Yea, so purple rock would obviously happen at Final 6

          The 4 loved ones team up against Tyson, he uses his idol & one of them gets voted out. Then at Final 6 the remaining 3 loved ones team up against the 3 returnees in a dead lock

      • Bobby Lewis

        that’s not a big move. it’s just the opposite because that means no one jumps ship. it’s great tv and a big moment, but not a big strategic move

  • taboo buzzer

    Quiet Gervase night tonight…

    • Trixie02

      He had his cheerleading moments at RI.

  • susan appleby

    Please ask Aras the following:

    How did he so misjudge Laura M. When he voted her out the first time? She was more loyal to him than anyone else, even his own brother.

    I think that vote is where Aras lost this game.

    Also, please ask how stupid is Ciera for voting out her closest ally in and outside of the game when not needed. Can anyone trust Ciera now?

    The sad part of this is that Ciera lacked faith in her Mom. She should have listened. Makes me wonder how tight that mother-daughter bond is. Was Laura giving up her own position simply to protect her daughter?

    • Stephen

      I don’t think Ciera really had a choice, she seemed like she wanted to send Katie home and her vote was merely a pile on vote rather than a swing vote. It doesn’t seem like Laura was bitter about it and could win her friends on the jury. Ciera is just about a lock to finish 4th in my opinion (she won’t win challenges so they’ll keep her around and when it comes to the final 4 she will probably be a threat to win so they’ll vote her out).

      • susan appleby

        The question for Aras is was his mistake in voting out the loyal Laura M. Not clear why he did that- over thinking and a terrible read on her character.

        • Stephen

          On Aras I completely agree, I did the opposite of what a lot of people do. Most people trust someone they shouldn’t but Aras distrusted someone he could trust. I’m sure he’d admit he messed that one up, although if Laura B goes home the whole snow globe gets completely shaken up at that point, and with a tribe switch it is hard to predict what the alternate tangent would have been.

  • Kapil

    Haven’t yet heard the podcast but was I the only one really bothered by the fact how Ciera and Laura kept claiming constantly that they were the last pair in the game???

    Coz they aren’t – Tina is still in the game. And if you consider only the main part of the game then Laura has already made a trip to RI so even that doesn’t fly. They may be turn out to be the last pair in the game but they definitely aren’t YET based on any parameters whatsoever…

  • Marcus

    Ciera has been criticized a lot for her decisions this episode, but if she ends up in the loved ones alliance, as possibly shown in the previews, I think she would definitely beat Hayden, Caleb, and possibly even Katie at the end. There’s also a chance she could beat Monica, so really, Ciera is the third most likely to win if she makes it to the end; she just needs to take out Tyson and Gervase.

    • damnbueno

      Ciera can beat Tyson and Gervase too if those guys anger the other jurors when they leave the game.

      • Marcus

        Very true…although I feel like this could be a relatively unbiased jury. Aras at least seems to be neutral at the moment.

        • damnbueno

          Aras is an uncommonly even-tempered Survivor player.

          He’s also the first juror. The closer the Jurors get to the finals, the greater their potential for being bitter.

          • Marcus

            Yeah, you’re right. Vytas, too, maybe. Well by that logic, Ciera really does have a decent shot, should she make it to the final 3.

          • susan appleby

            I wonder if Monica keeps herself out of the finals? All this talking about vote switching, when Tyson has the idol, makes me wonder.

            How funny would it be if Monica flipped to the newbie group to vote out Tyson, Tyson plays the idol and Monica leaves.

          • Kevin Wong

            Monica? Emotional? Surely you can’t be serious?

          • damnbueno

            Yes I am serious. And don’t call me Shirley.

            LOVE that movie.

      • Trixie02

        Gervase is playing good cop by cheering people on at RI.

        • BobbyKe

          In Aras Day After Video he says he thinks Gervase messed up & says it was dumb for Gervase to side with Tyson over Aras, compliments Tyson knowing he engineered it & says Gervase is playing for 2nd or 3rd in his opinion

          So Aras would absolutely vote for Tyson in the end but not Gervase

          • damnbueno

            I saw that video too, and I didn’t get the impression that Aras would refuse to vote for Gervase at all.

            If anything, Aras appears to be a totally objective juror who isn’t putting any unreasonable emotional bias into his decisions yet.

            I think he’ll be completely fair with his vote.

          • BobbyKe

            Aras makes it clear that he thinks it was a better move for Tyson then it was for Gervase though & didn’t really understand why Gervase would go with Tyson

            Based on that, with that likely being the biggest move Gervase makes, if Aras isn’t receptive to it, then hard to see why he’d consider voting for Gervase

            Objectively, Aras didn’t seem to think Gervase made a good move

          • damnbueno

            Oh yeah, its clear Aras thinks Gervase made a mistake, but that doesn’t mean Aras will never vote for Gervase to win the million.

            Aras and Gervase are very good friends outside of the game. That alone means Aras is more likely to be forgiving of Gervases’ mistake.

            We’ve never seen Aras on a jury, and have no idea what criteria he’ll use to cast his vote.

            And like I said, I don’t think Gervase has done anything to make Aras say “I’ll NEVER give my vote to Gervase.”

            Aras looks decidedly NOT bitter about how he got voted out.

            I think his vote is totally up for grabs if Vytas isn’t in the finals.

      • finsburysghost

        it is set up to be an interesting jury.
        Katie arguably has 3 votes – Aras, Tina, Vitas.
        Cierra has a lock jury vote – Laura.
        I think the other 5 have to get both out before the jury to put all 6 of those votes in play.

        • damnbueno

          Its a little early to handicap the Jury. So much depends on why each juror leaves.

          But yes, Tina is a lock to vote for Katie, and Laura M. votes for Ciera and vice versa, should Tina and/or Laura reach the finals.

          I’m not so sure Aras and Vytas’ votes can be given to anyone yet. Vytas got very close with Ciera, Caleb and Hayden, and Aras considers Gervase, Tina and Tyson good friends too.

          Monica has a tendency to annoy others with her motormouth (check this week’s deleted scenes). Couple that with her nervous paranoia, and I think she has the toughest chance to get the million.

          • Corndogger

            I agree with you about Monica. If Katie makes it to the end her husband Vytas will vote for her. Him giving her the HII clue and not Ciera, Caleb or Hayden showed he’s closer to her than them.

            Unless there’s some major backstabbing from here on out this looks to be a jury that will vote based on game play which will be good for Tyson if he makes it to the end. He just needs to be able to convince the jury that he was the one calling most of the shots.

          • damnbueno

            Jurors never cease to surprise me with their voting criteria.

            I would have bet my house that Cochran, Edna and Cowboy Rick would have been so mad at Coach they’d never vote for him, yet they all did.

            I didn’t think Phillip had a prayer of winning, yet he got Ralph’s vote (enough to get him the $100k 2nd place money), and after the fact I found out he had a VERY good shot at winning the whole game with Steve, Julie, Mike and David’s votes too. Andrea and Matt were 50/50 going in to questioning as well.

            You just can never tell what will sway each juror.

    • Snappy

      I think she will lose to Hayden if he is the one to blindside Tyson. Monica might win over her as well because she won 2 individual immunities.

      • susan appleby

        No one knows Tyson has the idol. Any chance he plays it? If he goes to RI with it in his bag, does he keep it?

        • Trixie02

          That’s interesting. Could he use it if he returns?

        • Snappy

          I think that if he sees a lot of whispering he might play it. If goes to Red-I he could hold it and hope he gets back in it or maybe find a way to slip it to Gervase?

        • damnbueno

          Tyson’s instincts with the Idol will likely be the difference between winning and losing the million.

          Historically, Tyson hasn’t done a good job of figuring out when someone is lying to him. If Caleb, Hayden, Katie, Monica or Gervase are good liars, Tyson will go to R.I.

          We’ve already seen that Ciera is a good liar.

    • Jouni Knuutinen

      I loved the move she made with Katie, calling her bluff with a rebluff. Katie didn’t put up much of a fight, but it was still a nice maneuver by Ciera. What I didn’t like was Ciera bragging about it to Tyson and the guys. This immediately set up red flags for Tyson and is something that can be used against Ciera later on. Overall this episode improved her chances of winning a great deal.

  • David Mansfield

    Bit harsh you giving Stephen stick for getting the previews wrong Rob, when at the start of the season you boldy declared that no loved one ever will vote out another loved one, happy to receive the apology via email or online thanking you in advance.

  • Alex Lopez

    The only happiness I felt tonight was seeing Aras in the jury section of Tribal Council, other than that I was upset that Laura went home, but it was the best move for Cierra and as long as either one of them win, I’ll be happy.

  • Snappy

    Such a funny episode of know-it-alls…keep up the good work guys. I was watching and couldn’t help but feel like maybe Hayden might have thrown the challenge. I really thought he would have lasted longer than others. I loved the thought of finding a way to tell them that the hidden immunity idol was found. Maybe giving the clue blank and stating in the beginning that if you receive a blank clue that someone has it. This way it doesn’t blow up the holders game but gives the person who needs the idol something to use to help them stay in the game.

    • Tjimi Cole

      And as an added bonus it would mean that ten minutes of every episode would no longer be wasted on depicting a pointless search for an Idol that has already been found.

      • susan appleby

        It is funny that they both scramble to find the idol and vote as if someone has it.

        This clue is probably a drawing of where the idol is located.

        There is only one, right? They didn’t bring the idol from the other beach? There was one for each tribe in the beginning I thought.

      • damnbueno

        There is no fan consensus on Idol searches.

        I remember last season, a lot of commenters were complaining about NOT seeing anyone look for the Idol.

    • Corndogger

      Hayden definitely didn’t throw the challenge. In one of the Secret Scene videos he said he found the challenge very hard.

      • Snappy

        Sorry didn’t see the Secret Scenes. Thanks for letting me know :) but I think it might be a good strategy for him. He doesn’t need to win immunity challenges and he doesn’t look like a threat.

  • Katie

    Monica giving up the hot dogs is ultimately a non-issue — I mean, we got to see Caleb saying “she’s a mom!” which was amusing if only because we learned that Caleb is still in the game.

    Giving up that reward is absolutely a non-issue…which sucks. Probst let her off easy.

  • Trixie02

    Caleb gave his hand away at tribal. He and Hayden are sitting pretty in a Tadhana majority. Voting Laura over Katie strengthened that. They are also in the male alliance. If Tyson plays the idol, Caleb might be going because he vocalized the strategy.

    Tyson may have blown it. Those are the last Tadhana standing and they lost a lot early in the game. He is in one minority group now. The idol may save him but he may be in for a huge blindside.

  • susan appleby

    What about Laura’s comment that you end up with three people who aren’t in the alliance? Was that foreshadowing or was it looking back to the first time they voted her out?

    • BogDa

      I think that’s her talking Samoa shop. That’s what happened to her last time, the whole thing got screwed up because people played dumb.

  • Joe Byars

    I think 100% Gervase does NOT win

  • Mike

    They’ve kind of killed the suspense to me this season. Tyson isn’t getting the Coach
    edit, he’s getting the full-on Boston Rob edit, I can’t see how he doesn’t win. I really wish they could find a point for their mastermind edits somewhere between “the fall of Coach” and “Boston Rob is so in control that he just moves chess pieces around for the hell of it” so it wouldn’t be this obvious from watching the show. Going off edit, the only person not totally dead as a winner candidate is Ciera (since the show actually never presented Ciera voting off Laura as stupid, and if they wanted Ciera to look bad, they absolutely could have) and maybe like a 2-3% for Vytas, but based purely on edit, Hayden, Caleb, Katie, Gervase, and Tina have been too consistently invisible to be have any chance to win, and Monica has been getting buried by the editors for the last couple of weeks, and then was invisible this week. Tyson is one of my favorite players, so for that reason I want to see him win, but with the edit right now, I almost am rooting against him so the season can get some suspense back.

    • Kevin Wong

      I think the thing is that after the Aras boot the next two were relatively routine. This week centered around the “dastardly” Ciera (note: sarcasm) who told her mom Laura she might have to vote her off and then did so.

      Now we’re down to 7, and if business were ever to pick up, it will have to happen now. Hopefully there are some secret scenes that show us that these guys have some wheels in motion already.

      • Mike

        Sure, but with regard to the invisible people, it’s not just the past 2 weeks they’ve been invisible, they’ve had no consistent narrative throughout the whole season for the story to make sense with them winning. Maybe if I re-watched South Pacific, Ciera’s edit might resemble Sophie’s edit to a degree that it’s possible she wins, and they’ve never had a winner come off Red-I, so we’d have no idea how a Vytas winners edit would look, but the rest of them just can’t win, and if one of them does, the editors need to be fired for not giving them a story arc.

  • EricD

    Anyone else getting sick of this “unresolved brother issues” stuff that Probst and the edit keep jamming down our throats? It seems to me like Aras’ and Vytas’ relationship is quite typical for brothers (friendly, but not perfect). I think they’re trying too hard to craft a story that isn’t really there.

  • Tchouppi

    Regarding searching for idols that have already been found. I think a hidden idol should be inside a box that is affixed to something and unable to move. The box would be hidden beneath the ground or in a tree, etc., and when found, the player would open the box and take the idol…That way, when another player follows clues to the idol location, he/she will discover that the idol has already been taken by another member of the tribe. This would give players who earn immunity idol clues some reward in learning someone else must have it and whether or not to share that information/find out who has it.

    • Kevin Wong

      This reminds me of when Chan Yau-Man made a fake idol (and a pretty good one at that) after he found the real one and buried it.

      • Tchouppi

        I missed that season but have heard it referenced in subsequent seasons. I like the idea of a player scrambling to find out who has the missing idol and how having only a best guess might affect their voting/who they trust. And I really like the idea of a player finding an idol and trying to create a fake one to replace it, all the while not fully sure if they themselves have a real idol.

    • Marc Percy

      That is a good idea. What would be great is then using the box for another purpose for anyone else that finds it. Like maybe location to a food stash, or maybe an advantage at the next challenge or something like that.

  • Snappy

    Any thoughts to when Red-I is over? Two more challenges of Red-I is enough for me. I feel like Tyson vs Vytas vs Laura M might be a great way to end it.

    • Kevin Wong

      Snarky answer is that it concludes during the finale.

      But both times they did a Final Challenge once they got down to four Castaways to create a final five. So probably then.

      • Snappy

        The person doesn’t have a lot of moves to play being brought back so close to the end. It’s harder for players like Vytas to make a vote based on his personal feelings if he joins the jury pretty much at the end. He will have to make his vote off of what people are telling him.

        • zjzr

          One bad flaw really IMO of RI during the Jury phase, that the ones that reside on them, must trust 2nd hand information to those who were sent there to get an opinion.

          • Snappy

            That’s why I think ending it earlier gives players more of an impact on the game. The only person who might benefit from Red-I going to final 5 is Katie. I think she can be an easy pick for anyone’s third because I think everyone will think they could beat her in the end.

  • BogDa

    This episode was incredably frustrating. It was filled with bad game play on the part of everyone except Tyson. Ceira is getting a winners edit at the this point, but she might also have made a huge mistake.

    Ceira and Laura: I agree that Laura makes Ceira a target, but Ceira SHOULD be a target because she’s got game. The move with Katie was awesome. Now Tyson has realized this which does not bode well for her. That the preview hinted at a Tyson blindside means it won’t happen. I have really mixed feeling about the move of voting out her mom. It is being portrayed well, and it gives her a winners vibe because she did the thing that everyone was worrying about having to do. But I also thinking that people always make the mistake of voting out their allies to appease other people. It is stupid. Ceira can trust her mom, she can’t trust anyone else there. But having Laura on Redemption to potentially defeat Vytas, Tina and Tyson could be really valuable for Ceira’s game.

    Hayden/Caleb: This was so stupid I can’t even bare it. They are all on board with Tyson thinking that Monica is not their third. How dumb. Monica could win her way to the end and Tyson and Gervase are probably banking on her being their Phillip.

    Tyson: The last shot at Tribal Council when Jeff said their can only be one winner showed Ceira and Tyson. No Gervase, no Monica. Tyson outplayed everyone in this episode. I want him to lose, but at this point he’s just playing so much better.

    Gervase: Interesting that Aras identified him as the one that blindsided him. But he got very little time tonight.

    Monica: A serious challenge threat. She could prove disruptive to someone’s game. Her edit is both positive and really negative. She’s shown as strong and capable as well as savy in identifying when she’s in danger but also paranoid which is not a winning characteristic.

    Katie: God so clueless. She’s so in over her head. All talk in confessionals, but amounts to nothing. I think in her interviews for casting she must have come across as really smart and strategic —in a school sort of way, but she’s got no street smarts. Ceira has the streets smarts.

    Aras: Hottest juror ever?

    • damnbueno

      There’s just something about Laura M. that says “vote me out.” I can’t put my finger on it, but it happens to her all the time.

      Maybe she’s more annoying than it appears?

      • Trixie02

        Laura’s not a damsel in distress. Monica can definitely play that role (and I’m sure she has) although she isn’t now.

        She may not be annoying, just in control of her emotions and methodical, and that can be taken the wrong way. People perceive her as a threat, but she hasn’t proven that she actually is one.

        • damnbueno

          You got that right.

          Laura is a below average strategist, and her social game seems to only work with women.

          She does TALK like she knows what she’s doing. I guess that’s all it takes to make people want to get rid of you.

    • zjzr

      I thought Hayden and Caleb did the best move:

      1. Cut Ciera’s ties with her mother.
      2. Get enough numbers for a possible Final 7 returnees blindside; pick Monica as she could be the least like to have the idol, but in truth use it to keep Tyson and Gervase as threat shields.
      3. At Final 5, Tyson or Gervase could be seen as bigger threats to keep that a pair (Hayden-Caleb & Ciera-Katie) using either one as a swing vote (unlike Abi-Maria which I thought was an obvious swing vote for Denise-Malcolm & Lisa-Skupin).
      4. Use Ciera to vote out Katie at Final 4 by convincing that Aras, Vytas and Tina would give Katie Jury votes to create a tight competition IMO between Caleb-Hayden-Ciera.

      I think Tyson is now at the mercy of that pair.

  • BogDa

    Something that was a bit odd about waiting to have three people on Redemption island was that Aras never got the oppertunity to switch with Vytas.

  • Marc Percy

    I don’t think Ciera should have voted for Katie and here is why. While writing her mom’s name down was tough and tough for Laura to see, but she was prepared for it. If Ciera voted for Katie, then she burns that relationship to use later. Katie and Ciera reconnected, while Ciera did use Katie for info, but that setup for the possibility that is shown in the previews. Will it happen next week, probably not, but the fact that she does try invalidates both Rob and Stephen’s argument about Ciera not doing anything. She is playing and we are just beginning to see her plan. I fully expect her to get the final 3 and I would not be shocked if she wins the whole thing.

    • zjzr

      True – Laura M. is already not bitter about it, so why give a throwaway vote to someone else and induce paranoia, which are amplified in Survivor due to hunger and such. She is seeming to build bridges with Katie again, which could be beneficial if the Original Tadhana Alliance would form (say a 2-2 tie at Final 4).

      • susan appleby

        Because Katie would understand that she can’t write down her Moms name. Everyone would understand that.

        • zjzr

          But the thing is, she can – it shows that she is capable of separating the game with personal feelings. She knows that mom would always be mom but this is a game where you have to do the best move (not the best, but I though this was her 2nd best) that if you said on the Jury they might recognize it. If it wasn’t her mom, she would’ve just gone with the crowd. She is still seen as a follower robot and if it is true that she was talking about voting out Tyson during those times (irrelevant to the story) so Tyson and co. could still hesitate to vote her out, not thinking that she is still capable of doing big things.

    • JoelBarish

      I was also pretty surprised about how negative Stephen was about Ciera. He said that she did nothing to try to save Laura, but we saw Ciera try to put the vote on Katie. The larger issue seems to be a matter of viewpoint. If I don’t see an obvious move, then I assume it happened and failed. It wouldn’t make sense for Caleb, Hayden, or Monica to turn on their alliance as they would all be moving to a worse position (and you need two of the three to flip). So I wasn’t surprised when Ciera said on Twitter that she tried to flip Caleb and Hayden and failed.

    • Marie-France Trepanier

      I agree with you 100%. Ciera has a good social game and Laura has absolutely none. Every tribal council Laura throws her daughter under the bus and puts her foot in her mouth. Laura is not liked but her fellow tribemates. Beside loyalty Laura was not a good ally for Cierra.
      I think Ciera handled it nicely. She prepared her mom in advance and she didn’t backstab her. It was just a matter of time before Laura was voted out. If Cierra would have fought for her, she would have gone down with her. Now, she still has a good position in the game.
      And yes, she voted out her mom. So what?! Whatever happened to everything is fair in love, war and Survivor? We have seen worst blindsides.

  • Omar Gonzalez

    47 minutes into this podcast, it seems that Rob and Stephen at least somewhat seriously view Ciera’s vote as a moral issue… Surprising in light of how strongly they insisted that Dawn’s vote against Brenda was a moral non-issue.

    • PHILtheCANADIAN

      I’m sorry but there is a huge difference between voting out(and blindsiding) YOUR OWN MOM and voting out someone you’ve become friends with for 30 days

      • Tjimi Cole

        Not if it’s a game.

      • Omar Gonzalez

        My point, as I expressed when Brenda got voted out, is that the fact that it’s a game, doesn’t necessarily make it okay to do whatever is permitted by the rulebook.
        And believe it or not, I actually feel that what Dawn did was worse… I don’t see how Ciera ever took advantage of Laura M. during the season, whereas Dawn made what I think was a sincere declaration that she would quit the game if Brenda couldn’t retrieve her retainer, and then decided AFTER THE FACT to treat that declaration like a strategic ploy. Dreams did likewise to Yau-Man (and also broke his promise to God). Those are the only two lies, blindsides or backstabbings to which I’ve ever objected in Survivor history.

        • Jouni Knuutinen

          What Dreams did is totally fine. The car, as a prize, is just a part of the game, just like the food that Monica won and gave to the rest of the tribe. They players who ate the food are not morally in any way in debt to her.

          What Dawn did was obviously much worse. She is in no way obligated to keep Brenda in the game, but what she was obligated to do was to show her the same compassion Brenda showed when she dove after the retainer. Dawn could have given her a warning before they went to tribal, apologizing for what’s to come.

          Laura knew she could get voted out and when the votes were read you could see that she wasn’t surprised. Voting her out wasn’t morally wrong for Ciera, it was just something that needed to happen in the game.

      • BobbyKe

        Not in Survivor there isn’t

        Plus Ciera at least attempted to keep her mom. She realized that wasn’t going to happen & kept her position applicable. Ciera did all she could

        • PHILtheCANADIAN

          Uhh yeah, in Survivor there is. Meeting someone on an island and betraying them after 30 days is different than betraying your mom who took care of you for 18+ years.

          I say this as someone who has no problem with either of those things, but I can certainly see why someone has issue with one and not the other

  • Omar Gonzalez

    Even though I still don’t quite believe Colton about why he quit, has anyone noticed that his prediction is being fulfilled? His departure seems to have resulted in safe passage for Caleb.
    But unless Production has grown wiser, Colton’s quit might also mean another finale with only one elimination and a challenge for an advantage in the real immunity challenge… Lame.

    • JoelBarish

      By my math, we are on track for three “eliminations” in the finale. First, the final Red-I challenge happens and that player will come back in the game. At this point there are five players and we will have two tribals prior to the final tribal to get it down to three.

      • Omar Gonzalez

        Admittedly, Red-I math confuses me… I hope you’re right, as I’d hate to see another immunity-challenge-advantage challenge.

    • damnbueno

      I don’t think we can justifiably credit Colton’s quit with keeping Caleb around.

      Caleb is still in the game because:

      1) He fell on the good side of the members switch and didn’t go to Tribal Council before the merge.
      2) Gervase and Tyson needed some votes to boot Aras.
      3) Booting Vytas and Tina were a higher priority after the merge.

      Colton didn’t have anything to do with any of those events.

      We can play “what if Colton didn’t quit?” but what’s the point? There are too many moving parts to say for sure what might have happened.

      • Omar Gonzalez

        My point is that in a post-merge environment that seems to have targeted the couples, Caleb’s solitude has provided some measure of protection. But yes, of course we can’t say for sure what might’ve happened.

        • damnbueno

          I agree with you there. Gervase said before the swap that he wanted to break up all the power couples. If Colton was around, there’s little doubt he and/or Caleb would be on his hitlist too.

      • dsharden

        I agree with you. That’s why I felt it was so stupid for FUBC stating in ALL his exit interviews, ” Caleb made a shred move, but was it a smart one”. Like, yeah, it was smart. He is still in the game and FUBC is on some vacation watching Jack & Jill. Caleb will be on the jury. I’m liking Monica better for her determination and winning the immunity necklace, but I don’t think I’ll ever like FUBC. Hope he never plays again.

        Also, Colton had no influence on anything in the game.

        Also, also, Colton is great dating material if something goes wrong in his current relationship. Everyone wants to date someone who made the merge!

        • damnbueno

          I think Brad was a horribly bad player, but he made a huge impact on the audience. People like to watch a train wreck.

          So for the same reason Colton, Cochran, Phillip and Brandon got to play again, I’d say Brad has a good shot too.

          If they do a “rivals” season, they could easily pit Brad & Monica against Candice & John, (or Gervase and Marissa for that matter). If they still want to bring RC back, they could do the same thing with her and Abi-Maria.

      • Jouni Knuutinen

        I think all the people whose loved one went out early benefitted from it: Tyson, Gervase, Caleb, Hayden. Being solo has helped them avoid being a target. No, it hasn’t been the sole reason they are still in the game, but every little bit helps. Booting Aras, Vytas, Tina and now Laura were of a higher priority than booting Caleb simply because those people still had a loved one in the game. Caleb and Hayden have been without their loved ones for some time now and that has helped them stay under the radar.

        • damnbueno

          The remaining couples became targeted because Gervase came up with that idea on day 13, then convinced Tyson to go with it on day 14.

          Colton had nothing to do with Gervase’s idea.

          We could also say Caleb is still in the game because he hasn’t had the guts to lead a movement to improve his position in the game.

          Or we could say Caleb is in the game because he’s not a returning player, and the Vets are being targeted first at the merge.

          Or we could say Caleb is in the game because so far he has sucked at challenges and only the good athletes are being targeted.

          But the only accurate answer is the one given by the players — namely Gervase and Tyson.

          Gervase decided he wanted to target all the power couples, starting with Aras and Vytas. Tyson agreed with him. Tina and Katie were next, followed by Laura and Ciera.

          • Jouni Knuutinen

            You seem so set on that theory about Gervase coming up with the idea and convincing Tyson. This is odd, especially since you acknowledged in your conversation with Mike that it was Tyson that presented it to Gervase, not the other way around:
            “The next day (Day 14) Tyson and Gervase were shown wondering if they should go after Aras if Galang lost Immunity. That’s when Tyson asked “Could you write Aras’ name down?” Then they became partners.”
            Clearly, according to your own words, it was Tyson who convinced Gervase, not the other way around. But I guess you just hate Tyson and want to give him as little credit as possible.

            “Gervase decided he wanted to target all the power couples, starting with Aras and Vytas. Tyson agreed with him. Tina and Katie were next, followed by Laura and Ciera.”
            Had Colton been in the game him and Caleb could have been another power couple that Gervase and Tyson wanted to target. Caleb was solo and became an ally instead.

          • damnbueno

            Please re-read my conversation with Mike. Ever since I saw Gervase’s secret scene — captioned “Day 13″ — that Gervase came up with the idea.

            Gervase came up with the idea on day 13. He and Tyson became partners on day 14.

            My opinion is that Gervase came up with the idea to boot Aras and/or Vytas on day 13. Then he and Tyson agreed to go ahead with that plan on day 14 when they became partners.

          • Jouni Knuutinen

            “My opinion is that Gervase came up with the idea to boot Aras and/or Vytas on day 13.”
            Sadly, nothing that the players said or did support that. You can keep repeating that theory if you want, but that doesn’t make it true. Unless you manage to find that clip of Gervase on day 13 and a clip with him convincing Tyson, this is just you hating Tyson and not wanting give him the credit for booting Aras and Vytas.

            “I am flattered that you so frequently try to use the phrasing and logic I use with others.”
            Um, sorry but no, I don’t. I’m not sure what gave you that idea, except your enormous ego of course.

            “You can keep on doing your impersonation of me if you get off on it, but until you start doing it well, you’re just coming off as a bad impressionist.”
            I just talked you into a corner and you take that to be an impersonation of you. It just shows how big your ego is but at the same time that’s probably the highest compliment you are able to give. So thanks, I guess.

          • damnbueno

            I’ll say this once more, and if you choose to ignore this, I just won’t respond to you anymore.

            Knock of the lame imitation. If you want to discuss Survivor in YOUR own words, I’m happy to talk to you.

            But if you continue with using phrasing I’ve just used in another conversation with someone else again, we’re done.

            If you can’t handle my “enormous ego,” then stop asking for my opinion on so many topics.

            The choice is yours.

          • Jouni Knuutinen

            I’m not imitating you in any way. I don’t know what phrasing you are talking about when you say I copied you. I don’t read all of your comments. I did however read the conversation you had with Mike and quoted something you said to him there, maybe that confused you?

          • damnbueno

            If it happens again, we’re done.

          • Jouni Knuutinen

            Well it hasn’t happened even once, so it can’t happen again ;).

  • zjzr

    Even though this wasn’t Ciera’s best move (the best move would’ve been IMO convince Caleb and Hayden to do a blindside against the returnees), I felt that she at least made herself known that she is willing to make risks for the alliance and for the betterment of her game, and that she wouldn’t let emotional connections hinder her and not be seen as just a shadow.

    The best thing IMO is for her to get “revenge” to Tyson and co. by organizing the blindside against them – ask the person she trusts the most in the Caleb-Hayden pair and convince the other one to vote with her against Tyson and co., and I think it is not that hard for Ciera to convince Katie to vote with her too.

    That said, Caleb and Hayden are the ones that have the most power now – I think Hayden more so (see how Caleb would’ve preferred to keep Laura M. than Katie so Hayden was probably the one who decided to vote against Laura M. to at least guarantee 5 votes – with Tyson and co. – against Laura M.). They could go to:
    1. Male Alliance – Tyson, Gervase, Caleb, Hayden (target the girls)
    2. Tadhana Alliance – Katie, Ciera, Caleb, Hayden (target the returnees)
    3. Current Singles Alliance, with Ciera sub-alliance – Ciera, Caleb, Hayden (vote out a returnee, then Katie next, then the other returnees).
    Tyson now has no definite shield with Laura M. gone (except seemingly harmless as of now Katie) which C&H could capitalize.

    All in all, quite a solid episode for a kinda predictable vote.

    That said I think the real winners this episode is not Tyson nor Ciera but the ones who seemed to be just the additional votes.

  • finsburysghost

    1) I hate Redemption Island.
    2) WInner’s Edit – This season is fun, but not great. We have only seen the strategy of Tyson and Gervase.
    I assume Hayden has an end game strategy – how about a hint from CBS.
    I assume Caleb has an end game strategy (not as sold) – hint CBS?
    Cierra – obviously she is thinking about more than just the next vote even if it is a bit scattered. We could have seen more piror to this week CBS.
    Katie – I thought she was a zero, but she did say, I need to find the idol “to buy me time to find an alliance”. So Katie has some strategic acumen. Show up CBS.
    3) Didn’t understand the immediacy of voting Laura M (by Cierra) tonight. I agree a Laura M followed by a Cierra vote out is close, but I think Cierra is going to get voted out before 5 in any case given this strategy.

  • finsburysghost

    Was Laura thinking, “if she (Ciera) wins the $1,000,000 I don’t really get any of that money. She’s my daughter. I bet she keeps it all for herself and doesn’t give me any of it”? It’s not like a mother-daughter team shares the prize like a husband-wife.

    • susan appleby

      I didn’t see any indication of that. She went along with Ciera after Ciera told her she couldn’t win.

  • Brad Talk

    I thought it was a good move for Ciera to vote for her mom. Why is everyone surprised that she would do that? I would vote for my mom.

    • susan appleby

      Because her mom is her most trusted ally and the only person she can absolutely rely on.

      I think Ciera underestimated her Mom.

      I think Laura overestimated Cieras strategic sense. Plus she was so hampered by not wanting to mess up her daughters chances.

      I don’t know why Laura threw challenges as if that was a good move. She needed immunity. Everyone knows she is a challenge threat.

  • RipVannaWinkle

    I hate, hate, hate Redemption Island.

  • Joe Byars

    Stephen wrong?? never

  • sanjayP

    Ciera said it herself: She only has one shot at this (assuming she doesnt come back for all-stars) and she felt this was the best move.

    • susan appleby

      She also said last week that she doesn’t have a final four nailed down yet.

      It would have been nice to see that she had a plan beyond voting out her natural allies, which she has been doing all season.

  • Marie-France Trepanier

    I used to loooove Stephen. Is it just me or has he been really grumpy during the last 3 podcasts?

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